The Panel will hold a Confirmation Hearing for the position of Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall Police.  Mr Shaun Sawyer, Temporary Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall Police, is the Police and Crime Commissioner’s preferred candidate.

The Chair advised that the confirmation hearing was being held in order to consider the Police and Crime Commissioner’s proposed appointment to the position of Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall Police.  He welcomed Mr Sawyer (the preferred candidate) and Mr Hogg (the Police and Crime Commissioner [PCC]) to the meeting.

 

The Chair advised Mr Sawyer that during the course of the hearing the Panel hoped to gain further information from him about how he met the criteria for the post and his suitability for the role and would ask him a series of questions to enable them to assess his professional competence and personal independence.

 

After the confirmation hearing, the Panel would meet in private to consider the appointment and the press and public would be asked to leave the meeting.  The PCC would then be advised of the Panel’s decision. 

 

The following questions were asked and answers given.

 

Personal independence

 

Cllr Croad: in your role, you would be expected to maintain political independence from the PCC and his office but you would also be expected to support and assist the PCC with the delivery of the Police and Crime Plan.  What did he see as the challenges and opportunities in this respect and how would he deal with this?

 

Mr Sawyer responded that operational independence was enshrined in the Home Secretary’s policing protocol and the office of Chief Constable took an oath of independence to serve the Crown and the public.  He took the oath very seriously.  He had been a serving police officer for 27 years and in previous roles (including in counter terrorism) he had maintained a tradition of operational independence.  He had regard to the environment in which he worked which included local authorities, the Commissioner as well as the Home Secretary (with regard to the strategic policing requirement).  When he made operational decisions or decisions about the style of policing he was apolitical and proportionality of the police response was a factor to be taken into account.  Policing was effective only with the consent of the public.  He reminded Panel members that the PCC had also taken an oath of impartiality and that he could not foresee a position when the PCC and he would not be able to agree a way forward, by discussion,.

  

Councillor Hare Scott: in your role as Chief Constable, you would be required to balance operational needs within a framework of priorities and objectives set by the Police and Crime Commissioner.  What did he see as the risks associated with this and how would he overcome them?

 

Mr Sawyer advised that a major tension could often be between short term and long term considerations and local and national priorities had to be taken into account.  It could sometimes be easier to respond in the short term.  However, he considered that a long term view was essential. Areas such as safeguarding and public disorder required considerable funding but he was also concerned to connect with hard to reach groups and tackle crimes that didn’t necessarily command the greatest attention such as sexual abuse, child abuse and hate crimes.  The national agenda, the strategic policing requirement set by the Home Secretary, also had to be taken into consideration.  The peninsula was not immune to cyber terrorism and organised crime and requirements had to be balanced on a weekly and daily basis and reported to the PCC

Mr Firbank: when the first major incident in Devon and Cornwall was dealt with under the new Commissioner arrangements, where did he think the boundary between his and the Commissioner’s role needed to lie?

 

Mr Sawyer advised that a serious operational incident was the responsibility of police and the blue light agencies which included management of the media and assisting victims and families.  The PCC had a wider responsibility which was to ensure a coordinated response, to reassure the community, to hold the Chief Constable to account and to ensure that resources were sufficient to meet the needs of such incidents.  This included the training and availability of the necessary expertise and the quality of the investigation.  Public enquiries and crime enquiries could have very different outcomes and public enquiries could be very political.   The PCC would ask questions on behalf of the public about how the police responded, whether the issues were dealt with competently and would hold the Chief Constable to account for the actions of the police.

 

Professional competence

 

Mrs Atkinson: as he was well aware, Devon and Cornwall was a force area that was very diverse in terms of the levels and types of crime and seasonal variances.   What personal qualities and experience would he bring to ensure policing met these needs across rural, urban and coastal areas?

 

Mr Sawyer had worked for 26 years in central London and working in area that had 500 miles of coastline was quite different.  However, he had 6,000 staff who did have that experience and he listened closely to his workforce. The PCC had made it clear that he wanted neighbourhood police officers and special constables working in local communities and responding to crime in those communities.  On a macro level, he had the overview of where resources were required at different times of year, including the holiday influx to areas such as Newquay and north Devon.  The force was reliant on working with special constables, volunteers and street pastors especially in relation to the night time economy in Plymouth and such volunteers greatly assisted with de-escalating incidents.  His background in urban policing, serious and organised crime and counter terrorism had created awareness of risk management and crime in the peninsula could be managed down with a greater understanding of where there was connection between serious organised crime and local crime

 

Councillor Sanders:  with current budgetary pressures for the police and other public services and partners high on the agenda, what experience could he draw upon to maintain effective policing with less resources, and identify opportunities for delivering efficiencies through, for example, shared services with local authorities and other partners?

 

Mr Sawyer responded that this process was already underway and that there was £32 million less in the budget and around 400 fewer officers than when he joined the force so economies were already being delivered.  Collaborative approaches were essential such as at shared offices, some joint working with fire offices, joint outreach work and Devon and Cornwall Police was the regional police procurement lead.  Sharing information with social services and the health service and other partners was essential – the biggest asset he had was time and this should be directed towards problem solving and reducing demand and repeat offending.  Unit costs were far less than 10 years ago.  Outsourcing in itself wouldn’t necessarily drive down costs; the biggest cost was people so it was very important to consider how their time was used.

 

Councillor Saltern: what did he think gave the public confidence in the police and how would he increase that?

 

Mr Sawyer responded that people were affected by what they saw and heard, both nationally and locally and the style of policing should be open handed and engaging.  The PCC had identified an increasing tension between the police and the public - the public was not convinced that the police would respond how they wanted or that they would receive a service they liked.   The level of service was generally acceptable but that was not good enough because he had high standards.  Public confidence tended to be lost when the initial contact or the follow up wasn’t quick enough.  This needed to improve although a survey said that 95% of people had ease of contact.  The delivery challenge was to raise public confidence.

 

Should he be successful today one of his first communications to the force would be about integrity and values and how one individual acting corruptly would undermine the whole.  An honest mistake honestly made would be understood.  Corruption would not be tolerated and would result in an individual being asked to leave the force.

 

Councillor Saltern asked whether the level of complaints had increased?

 

Mr Sawyer confirmed that complaints were on the increase, not for corruption or for wrong doing but for incivility.  Compared to other police forces, Devon and Cornwall Police were average but Mr Sawyer confirmed that this was not acceptable as he didn’t do average.  There was no excuse for incivility and, if it did occur, should be apologised for. 

 

Councillor Greenslade asked whether police officers always used their time most effectively to give the greatest visibility?

 

Mr Sawyer commented that the previous police authority was clear about improving the use of time increasing accessibility.  The public liked foot patrols and whether that was the most effective use of police officer time was not necessarily the main consideration.  The geography of the area meant that even if all officers were on duty at the same time, there wouldn’t be a very visible presence over 4,400 square miles.  Special constables could be used more and, for young people, the greater use of apps, cyber space and social media should be increased.

 

Councillor Williams: what leadership qualities would he apply to managing performance against the Police and Crime Plan?

 

Mr Sawyer responded that an in depth understanding of problems was key.  For example, the increased number of rapes was likely to be the result of victims feeling that they could come forward and victims of crime should be encouraged to do so. Another leadership quality was ethical behaviour.  Also, encouraging partners to work much more closely together and to agree when the police or a partner should take the lead.  Mr Sawyer confirmed that he didn’t like losing and was keen to succeed.  He was very loyal to the people he swore an oath to and everyone deserved to live in a safe community.

 

Mr Firbank commented about examples of behaviour within statutory agencies where people failed to make moral choices and asked Mr Sawyer how he would instill such values all the way through the force?

 

Mr Sawyer responded that the workforce had to be engaged to understand the values of trust, courage, respect and objectivity.  If mistakes were made, they should be admitted.  The police lead by consent and respect was earned.  

 

Councillor Saltern questioned the seemingly constant changes in the way in which crime was reported and asked whether this could be more consistent?

 

Mr Sawyer advised that the best, independent, figures were collected by the British Crime Survey.  The force undertook telephone surveying and knew that some crimes were under reported.  He acknowledged that the communication of the results could be improved.    The Police and Crime Plan considered benchmarking and the importance of accurate and clear reporting of figures.

 

Councillor Greenslade: how would he ensure that the attitude of leading by consent was communicated throughout the workforce?

Mr Sawyer advised that the police were a command and control, disciplined organisation.  However, he was currently considering the option of Assistant Chief Constables being more aligned locally.  Only two per cent of the organisation was in supervisory ranks and the best and most direct forms of communication were directly to the lower ranks such as sergeant or the heads of units and they hadn’t always been directly involved. 

 

Councillor Hicks: you commented that a visible presence was important for public perception – a large part of the organisation is civilian – could they work in uniform?

 

Mr Sawyer responded that this hadn’t been considered though it could be and that he would consider this option.

 

Councillor Williams: with regard to street pastors and other volunteers assisting with the policing of the night time economy – how did he ensure that they all adhered to the public sector equality duty?

 

Mr Sawyer acknowledged inconsistencies of approach though regular training and conferences were organised.  The volunteers understood that the primary aim was to assist the person in need.  There were also health and safety briefings but the nature of volunteering meant that all the necessary information could not always be communicated. Mr Sawyer undertook to respond directly to Councillor Williams about the standard procedures and copy the response to the other Panel members.

 

Councillor Penberthy asked how Mr Sawyer had developed community policing in the past and what he would do in the future for all neighbourhoods and diverse communities.

 

Mr Sawyer said that a standard approach across neighbourhoods was not ideal.  Community based policing was the most appropriate model.  In some areas, for example anti-social behaviour, a joint approach with partners to coordinate at the point of delivery was developing.  Police officers required more training in problem solving and with working with other individuals and organisations at the point of delivery.  It was not always appropriate for the police to take the lead; team working was essential – using evidence based outcomes.  For example, the probation service now took the lead in respect of high risk violent offenders as this was most appropriate for that part of the criminal justice system.

 

The Chair asked Mr Sawyer whether he had any further comments to make.

 

Mr Sawyer commented that he really wanted the position because he believed in Devon and Cornwall and that he was a police constable at heart, though in a very senior role.  He wanted to play his part in delivering the current plans and to cut crime.  He observed that police officers were, at times, heroic and deserved to be well led and he would like to prove he could do that. The aim was to make Devon and Cornwall a safe place for children to grow up, for people to grow old safely and for visitors to say good things about us when they go home.  The police had a clear role in that.

 

AGREED that under Section 100(A)(4) of the Local Government Act, 1972, the press and public are excluded from the meeting for the following item of business on the grounds that they involve the likely disclosure of exempt information as defined in paragraph 1 of Part 1 of Schedule 12A of the Act, as amended by the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

 

The press and public left the meeting room and the Panel considered the appointment of the Chief Constable.

 

AGREED unanimously that the Police and Crime Panel supports the appointment of the PCC’s preferred candidate, Mr Shaun Sawyer, for the position of Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall Police.

 

The PCC was then invited to return to the meeting room and informed of the Panel’s unanimous decision. 

The meeting adjourned for 45 minutes